For use on new or existing concrete, screeds, stone, ceramic tiles, old and new timber floors, parquet and plywood. I have an unfinished third floor designed for a live load. Thanks for the question. The smell was also a big worry for me so thxs for clearing that up for me 🙂 See you gotta understand that this renovation is for my daughters(mother of 2 babies) fixer upper house… So im thinking like a gramma here lol My subfloors (with new 3/4 plywood) is a mess due to old floor joists beneath. You may have to wait longer when installing carpet or hardwood floors to ensure a totally dry environment in the subfloor before installing these types of flooring materials. There are no cracks in the sheetrock which leads me to believe this was there when the house was built. 2. Hello. First time using roof shingles to level a wood subfloor for a floating hardwood installation. We opted against this solution on the first floor because most self levelers aren’t rated for installation over OSB, and because they are expensive and messy. If you love you kid you will NEVER EVER use roofing shingles indoors,no matter what the reason.Roofing shingles give off dangerous gases.There are so many safe ways to level a floor.Please for your kid and your own safety do not use this shingle method.Also the fire companies will thank you for not making their jobs harder. It is important to totally Thanks for all this information… looking for some advice.  Once you start putting screws in, you’ll eventually create a very difficult sheet to remove (remember, each piece of plywood ends up with about 45 screws in it if you screw every 12 inches square and along the perimeter). I can see where it meets up with the kitchen where they had redone recently and they had to build it up to level it also. Any time you are adding weight to a floor, there can be a loading concern. However, if I use the shingles, then 3/8 sub-floor, then hardi backerboard for the tile, is that too much? What a great site. Go to product. After a whole lot of searching (three weeks sitting on google 🙂 this was the best solution I found. On the other hand, I get your idea and maybe that would work… A few thoughts: 1) If you could get the concrete cleaned, you could put down an epoxy coating or concrete etching stain. You can also use self leveling compounds when installing tile over top of an existing tile installation. I realize that I would have to caulk the spaces where the plywood meets. Cement Based Self-leveling Compound suitable on cement and gypsum based substrates. Instead of stacking sheets of shingles to raise a very low area (3/4 or greater drop), could I use a piece of OSB plywood for fill to get it close, then use levelquick and or shingles to feather out the edges? Al, You cannot completely “road tar” your indoor floor and expect a breathable layer of plywood to keep the gas away from you. Product Overview LevelQuik RS (Rapid Setting) Self-Leveling Underlayment helps level floors prior to the installation of ceramic tile, natural stone, resilient flooring, carpet, wood and other floor coverings. Also, every piece of dimensional lumber has a natural crown to it (the direction it bows along the long edge of the wood). What Causes Uneven Floors? (more time). I see no reason why you can’t do them at the same time, and it might be better for the surface of the floor. We marked high and low spots using a non-scientific method, sharpie marker on the floor with the words “high” and “low” and sometimes “very low” in the worst spots. We are planning to lay 3/4″ exotic hardwoods on top of the plywood, so what we’re looking for from the new plywood isn’t an “ultra-rigid” surface, it simply needs to bond to the layer beneath it, absorb very small gaps where the leveling provided by the construction felt and shingles isn’t perfect, and allow sufficient “grab” by subfloor screws to get a tight bond with the 5/8″ OSB below. Driving with a drill-driver is simply not an efficient option. You can see the dramatic slope on just one part of the floor in this picture. The 3/8″ plywood we laid had a LOT of bows and warps in it. If you get the lighter stuff, maybe 5 lbs. Our floor was generally flat until 5 feet from the wall and doorway leading to the kitchen. Self-Leveler Plus is convenient and easy to use. Some of the floor boards are not so level but all are flat. My subfloor is 5/8″ t&g ply instead of OSB. My biggest problem seems to be that the floors are quite a bit higher at the edges near the walls. I’m not sure cork would work for leveling. Any advice would be great; I can send pics, but I don’t know what they would add other than to show I am not much of a photo taker. You may have some repair to do when you pull up that vinyl, just to make sure the house is ready for the next surface floor. Rapid dry technology – Install most flooring in as little as 2 hours*. I’ve got a question. Denise, you can in fact use the shingles directly below other components. This was a novel idea to us, but it made sense. In this picture, Ethan is checking to sure that the shingles underneath my feet are filling the gap in the floor correctly. There are lows and highs under the carpet. I’m installing glue down engineered flooring upstairs and the hallway subfloor is 1/4″ lower that the living room. Thanks for posting your story. Question About Self Levelers Over OSB I know that most manufacturers, or at least all of the ones I know of recommend that you prime then lay down wire a ware mesh before using there product over osb as well as having a minimum thickness of 1/4". Also, I have the exact same fireplace setup you have in the photos above. TEC Gray and Silver Indoor Leveler is not self leveling. It’s beautiful, and almost perfectly flat. I’m sure the joints are not airtight. If air circulation around the shingles is poor, those chemicals will build up. This would have the advantage of not putting any additional load on the subfloor, and addressing the cause of the problem directly at the root. Used luan stacked font the low spots and feathered with shingles. It seems to be the pour method would be quick and easy but not cheap, although I do not know how much I need. Much appreciated 🙂, Ive read on a government site that heated tar (very hot) will send out fumes and is a danger for workers. Do you know if there be any grit crunching noise from the shingles once all installed? Fred, thank you for posting the information on how to do this. The main structure is supported by 12 x 12 oak beams. installation it is important that the tiles be sanded down and scuffed It appears something must have happened during the build as my nook is directly below this bedroom and you can tell that the dip is there by shining a flashlight directly across the top of the ceiling. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Great article, but I have a question about other leveling materials. 2) You do not need to leave expansion gaps in the sheets. We are remodeling an old house that was built in 1905. There is an area that slopes and I am wanting to level using your method as it is on the second floor. (don’t know if fiberglass would be better? The shingles have a tar bulge running down the middle. We used self leveler to level the concrete slab in our basement with great success. Does this make sense? Fred, Happy New Year. In the past couple of years have there been any new and innovative approaches? per square foot. Or are you just stopping at the plywood? Christine- This is my plan.  3/8″ plywood weighs about 1.5 lbs. We investigated further by removing tongue and grove plywood in problem low and high areas. I tore out the carpet to install laminate 12mm flooring and found it to run down hill 3/8″ in 4ft. In general, plywood does not add strength to a floor, except that it can help distribute the load from the center of a floor to the edges and to nearby joists, which tends to increase strength a bit. Used 1/2 plywood over,the 15# felt. When installing tile floors, you must ensure that the underlayment -- the surface the tiles will adhere to -- is perfectly level. Then I stumbled across this page. pool up in the low spots. I’ve been using these techniques to great success though I have been quite a bit more exacting with my measurements since I will only be putting down 10mm laminate over my OSB subfloor. Manufacturer Custom Building Products 13001 Seal Beach Blvd. slc; osb; Recommended Posts. I assume this is only a 3/4″ OSB subfloor. SLU installs quickly and can be delivered via pump or pouring methods. We pulled up the OSB and planed the joist underneath about 1/4 inch, then refastened new OSB over that joist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4-5S6buKfg Brian, glad we could help! 1946 i think the beam isn’t straight. This method seems much easier then other options. Can I use just the shingles without the felt tar paper under the OSB plywood? I have a similar condition w/ a 1/2″ gap under my level when i place it across my subfloor. This appears to be a great idea and methodology. I was hoping that I could lay down some 1/2″ or 3/4″ plywood at the lowest point to fill in the bulk of the void (then glue and screw it) and then feather out the rest of it with shingles or possibly a self-leveling product. My question is: Do I need another layer of plywood over shingles or can I just install the 1/2″ Engineered hardwood over the shingles? I could not and would not have done it without such clear instructions. Embossing compound in this application is best as it fills easy, dries quickly and easy to sand if you feel you need to remove any ridges, etc left behind after it dries. Then you can draw a line around the room where you want the new subfloor height to be. I feel that you are doing all this, and are taking a lifetime product (your exotic hardwood) and turning it into a 5-10 year product. For extremely large areas it may be necessary to have multiple individuals dedicated to mixing so that they can keep up with the self leveling application time frame. Particle board have been pulled up and OSB going in its place. I’m leveling my kitchen subfloor in preparation for laminate. 7. Most of them being 1/4″, some are 1/2″, there is also a considerable dip. I have a rise of 1&1/2 inch from one side of the house to the other…30 feet. We thought of that too – seems like something like dense closed cell foam should be an option. I’m definitely open to more thoughts on this as its a very interesting idea. Lets all ask the fire responders if we have made our houses unsafe by putting a few asphalt shingles between plywood subfloors. The product will seek its own level (much like water), but it must be spread initially to cover the affected area and not pool in the center. The rest is manageable and within 3/16, which we feel we can use layers of #30 on which is roughly 1/16″ thick, I believe. Great article. That is, if the laser is measuring 20 and 3/16 inches, the floor is 3/16 inches too low at that point (based on a 20 inch reference height). If so, then could I do the following… The level is sitting on the crown peaks, with the same measure in a depression between them. However, I would suggest having a foundation/ structural inspection by a professional done before doing any work. First make sure the joists will carry a normal floor load. If the slab is below grade, I would think you’d want to use pressure treated wood. Best option is shims and plywood. I’m not saying I’m an expert, but I’d be careful and/or look for more information. My question…….do I lay shingles grit side down, or grit side up (as in roof installation). Any help would be great if you have a chance! 2. Got even better when job got finished.No smell what so ever. Just mix it with water, pour and spread. Glad i found this article. There a several websites detailing the instructions. Plus, we figured we would need to install 3/8″ plywood over the self leveler to prepare for hardwoods (this may have been overkill, but we weren’t comfortable with the solution of driving staples directly through the leveler). Just a short update. Ahh. I recently pulled out my carpet just to notice the various low spots that were hidden by the cushion. The proven structural performance and application flexibility of Hexion's liquid and powder phenolic resins make them a manufacturing standard across a wide range of specialty and commodity OSB products. You can even sand it if there are bubbles, etc…not that I’ve had many in my test phase…I tried it in my alcove/window area and everybody loves it. Self leveling over OSB. No big deal, but it has to be sanded (palm sander). For large rooms or multiple areas you can not just pour the self leveling compound in one area and expect it to level out. Thxs so much for your help 🙂. / square foot average loading, but every house is different, and your individual situation could be very different. Best of luck with your project and feel free to come back with more questions. Thanks for the great write up. Latex primers are fast-drying, so they can be painted over in as little as an hour. Ethan’s in the process of documenting a shed building project, and we’re feature a great “How To” on a framed mirror tomorrow. What do you think? Can I use the single method to bring up the center enough to put a new floor down. 3. Why not use just the longer ones? The short of it is that you: I’m not making a whole photo shoot out of this project (I’m a photographer). This system worked perfect for my install, especially with the couple bad area’s that I had to work with. More time. I tried not to cut any corners. PROFLEX® SLU is a cement based self-leveling underlayment providing a smooth and flat concrete surface. Center of the living room slopes toward the walls with a difference of about a half an inch. Brilliant. Please help. I reversed how the shingles were laid and the “crunch” sound was not as noticeable. http://www.familycorner.com/homegarden/desrep/paper_bag_floor.shtml Just make sure this doesn’t cause any structural instability. Very informative. Pinpoint Uneven Areas. You do not want the self leveling compound dripping out or down below especially if you are applying it to a second floor room. ft. You should always read and follow the manufactures instructions closely as to how long the self leveling compound needs to set. It’s a big place and I’m stuck, I don’t ever want to do a bad job. You can picture that if you were filling a perfectly round depression, you would probably start in the very middle and work your way out, layering shingles until you get a perfectly flat surface. Measure the distance between the point where the laser intersects the tape and the floor, draw a dot on the floor at that spot and write down the difference (though, be sure your tape measure can accurately take outside measurements or you may be off a 1/16th or so). Hello Fred. Also, when you put down your plywood, did you (need to) leave any expansion gap between the sheets? As for any lasting danger, I don’t think so. To fasten the plywood to the OSB, we considered using a combination of 2″ subfloor screws and construction adhesive (i.e., Liquid Nails for Subfloors). My mother saw it yesterday and mistook it for stone at first. Or is it simply not dense enough to support the weight of the floor? I would offer one suggestion as it seems you have a similar situation as I as far as 3/8″ drop within 5 feet. Nothing has to be perfect. We are going over top of a 3/4″ subfloor and another layer of 3/4″ solid hardwood already and I would rather not add the extra weight, however I fear the floor will be “spongy” in that section? Step 1: Determine and mark high and low spots across the floor. I'll say up front, our results were not perfect, but I don't think it is the fault of the product. This process worked extremely well in flattening out my 86 year old floors! I’m also not sure whether cork has compression concerns. I am halfway through my leveling stage and can say that it is time consuming with just one person working on it, but the results are amazing. This is well outside the tolerance for hardwood flooring, which should be no more than 3/16″ variation over 8 feet. Then I had to laugh people wanted to know if the grit made noise.People need to know this is very unsafe thing to do,to hell with it making noise. Thanks so much. Hi, we're Ethan, Jocie, Kim and Fred. Since we’re going to be laying the 3/4″ hardwoods on top, which itself will entail 15 gauge staples more or less every 18 inches on the floor, we decided to omit the construction adhesive and instead go just with the screws. I thin laid out my level ontop of the overlapped shingles, and, while level, still had gaps under it from the ridges. My husband and I are 1st time DIY’ers laying a laminate floor for the 1st time. Good article … I’ve been trying to level a floor with shingles and felt … your’s is the only website with pictures of the task … at least it confirms what I’ve been going through … gave up on using the LevelQuik … after finding out from the manufacturer that the water in it could cause the floor beneath it to warp later …. I used 20 inches. I am very concerned about this issue. Pet urine (especially cat urine) can smell even with a surface completely covering it. I have a bathroom redo. Low is about 2 depths of tar paper. We found our floors to have significant dips towards the edges of the floor which we remedied with LevelQuick in three large spots. Thanks for posting this, I followed your instructions as to using the shingles to level the floor and it worked great. I don’t think you need 3/4″ plywood if you get everything level. This water-based TEC product can be used as finished flooring, and it costs about $37 per 50lb bag at Lowes. Coverage: Approx. Steve, great question on expandable foam. Yvette, I’ve never glued down roofing felt before, but I would suspect a construction adhesive would work. Be reasonable, attempt to use common sense. My wife and I live just South of you in Columbia and are undergoing a similar process. IM thinking that we will go with your idea. Guests marvel at the new floor, not knowing all the work that went into the installation. Some of the most common causes of humps and valleys on the floor are joists that come about due to the twists and flex that take place over time. I’m using it at this very moment to level off the subfloors in my family room, prior to installing 3/4″ Solid Oak Flooring. if its not, then all that weight not on a loadbearing wall I can almost guarantee isnt supported properly beneath it.). Step 6: Repeat steps 3-5 throughout the rest of the floor. The shingles seem like the answer to my dilemma. We used a combination of Luan, 3/8 plywood and shingles to even everything out. When it dried, the bowing became very noticeable. I wouldn’t do it, though if you were FANATICAL about leveling using shingles and the felt it might be possible, especially if you just had minor spots to fill. Maybe that was overkill, but that was how I minimized any gaps between the 3/8th inch plywood and shingles. But we dont plan on heating the floor so i’m guessing that you re probably right. Do you think The gravel from the roofing shingles might wear off later and produce a crunching sound when you walk on it? Also a second thicker layer of LevelQuik® RS levels floors prior to the installation of ceramic tile, natural stone tile, resilient flooring, carpet, wood and other floor coverings. NATCO - North American Tile Cleaning Organization, Copyright © 2014 - All Rights Reserved  Home | About Us | Privacy Policy. Great article and photos using shingles, etc. 3. This house has piers running end to end supporting the center of the house. Hello. The resulting smooth finished surface is ideal for the installation of all types of floor covering, including carpet, ceramic or natural stone Would like to go with laminate through out my 30 year old house. Repeat this process across the entire floor, roughly every 4 to 6 inches, marking the uneven areas with a pencil. Thanks for the quick response. It’s not enough to say that the shingles are ‘frozen under a layer of plywood’. I’ll shoot you some “during photos” via email, cell phone quality though. DESCRIPTION Self-Leveler Plusis a high-strength, regular-setting, cement-based, self-leveling underlayment and repair mix for use over interior concrete, plywood and other approved floor surfaces. I mapped out (contoured) the floor and have regions of 1/8″-1/4″ dips between trusses. Thanks for the awesome tutorial and pics. Just wondering how you nailed down the walnut, using cleat or staple? I think his real motivation was to sell and install more carpet. We did have to replace one piece of OSB due to wood rot where a persistent leak existed, but the rest of the floor was in pristine condition. I came across your article as I was researching alternatives to self leveling concrete. We think the most weight that would be placed across a single joist with the shingles is about 15-25 lbs along the span, or about 3-4 lbs. are all real and VOCs are bad for us and the environment. 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