… Deadlift - maintaing neutral spine when lowering; Results 1 to 9 of 9 Thread: Deadlift - maintaing neutral spine when lowering. Press J to jump to the feed. On my max sets, or really heavy sets I tend to just drop the bar (that is let it go). Aug 29, 2005 #4 I don't believe the dynamics change as long as you actually do a deadlift. Arnold Schwarzenegger This Speech Broke The Internet AND Most Inspiring Speech- It Changed My Life. This technique is adapted from Ellington Darden’s work. HUGE 220kg snatch deadlift with a slow eccentric from online client and u80kg strongman @marcthomas88. By contrast, a set to failure using minimal, 0-1 second eccentrics and concentrics of any speed (as in the end the velocity will be slow anyways once force production is high) will generally produce the same amount of tension at most intensities provided RIR is equated. First, the type of eccentric phase I recommend is more of a controlled negative rather than an arduously slow one. In other words, should you only just use your muscles to bring the barbell up? Not only do deadlifts not work most of the muscles it claims to hit through a full range of motion, they also don’t include a good eccentric portion (the lengthening contraction, like the descent of the bar on a bench press or squat). Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Yeah ! 1 year ago. Close. This is a big deal. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. People looking to just increase their numbers may therefore specifically train that part of the motion. lifted Well-known member. It’s probably not the same reference but Peter Attia talked about this exactly when he was on Joe Rogans podcast . I've heard that a lot, thanks for the info, Putting the weight down is less dangerous than picking it up, You should do the eccentric on the deadlift controled ( that doesnt mean slow). Cookies help us deliver our Services. When the bar passes the … Pretty much every study I've seen involving slow eccentric provides evidence for it being better than anything else for hypertrophy. 03-14-2014, 11:38 AM #7. Anywhere in between, I see how it feels but lower the bar with some control. At lighter weights I might. I've heard that said a lot. Examples are lowering into the bottom of a squat (slow eccentric) or the preparation for a plyometric movement like power push-ups or squat jumps (fast eccentric). The second thing is you may benefit from more of a mentality change than anything. Sometimes. There have been a lot of studies on this previously. It is the magic pill for strength development. Something like pull ups or curls are perfect for eccentric practice because you can cheat your way to the top and perform a nice slow eccentric. Agreed. Effect of repetition duration during resistance training on muscle hypertrophy: a systematic review and meta-analysis, Also, there are 2 GVT studies out that find no benefit compared to regular training. Generally, time under tension hasn't been found to be an important factor. This subreddit is a place to learn, teach, and share information on the myriad ways we all work to improve our health and fitness, and achieve our training goals. Last summer I lifted at an overcrowded Bally's in … lift. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The only portion of the lift that really counts in competition is the concentric. Putting it down should be both quicker and easier. Hypertrophy and Strength were superior in the 4 second group. Awards 1. Fix the eccentric by making the lifter go slow and the concentric will be stronger. Having said that, regardless of what most people seem to think, the bar cannot then be dropped, but needs to be lowered (partially dropped even) in a controlled fashion. To improve this number, you get stronger, and lighter How? It's possible a slower eccentric alters tension (and a slower one utilizes more active force production as opposed to a quicker one, while the opposite is true of concentrics at least initially) within a set given the aforenoted active force production + that the metabolic cost of eccentrics are lower so one could produce more total tension in one "set" before reaching "failure", if that makes sense. Proponents generally recommend a tempo of 5 seconds for the concentric (lifting) and 5 seconds for the eccentric (lowering) phase, but some super slow coaches even recommend taking as much as 10 seconds to complete a single phase of the movement on each rep. And they … Deadlift - maintaing neutral spine when lowering I struggle to maintain a nuetral spine when I lower the bar. This is also part of why I love RDLs. Are they just dropping it freely or letting their muscles control the drop to some extent? There are two parts of this lift. In powerlifting the competitive part of the movement is the lift only, where as every other lift involves an up and down movement (with a pause). But generally, no, I let the bar fall to the floor in a controlled manor. He backed this up with a superset of glute ham raises and snatch deadlifts to knees for 4 sets of 6 reps of each. Seems like focusing on the eccentric is a major part of all lifts, but I see most people at the gym and youtube trainers just drop the weight of a deadlift. Slow Eccentric Training is excellent for everyone. Anyone who says you can't lower a heavy deadlift doesn't know what they're talking about. View Profile View Forum Posts Member Join Date Jan 2018 Posts 23. If you’re new to this technique be extremely cautious at first and li… On warmup sets I always control the downward movement. I generally shoot for about twice as long eccentric as concentric. When I see guys at the gym or on you tube just dropping weights it just makes me feel they are disrespecting the weights/floor. Eccentric Only Deadlift - Duration: 2:04. Further, the eccentric of a deadlift should be a controlled drop with the hands on the bar. Notice how he lowers the bar very rapidly, letting it crash to the ground, resetting before each rep. Keith5x5. Eccentric is the negative part of the movement E.G. Why? I never thought about the eccentric part in the deadlift being important for size. Additionally, the eccentric on a deadlift is also very important for building a thick back. Obviously if you just let the weight drop, you're not working during the eccentric at all. Show Printable Version; 02-07-2018, 06:27 AM #1. It's important to consider this study in context. When you think about it, since you're stronger eccentrically, it would be logical to slow down a bit on the eccentric to make that part of each rep equal in difficulty to the concentric part with the same load. Here is an eccentric deadlift routine you may want to try if you have a pair of spotters and are feeling particularly daring. Unlike the PREP method described for squats and … Yeah I don't recommend anything like a 5 second count eccentric for deadlifts, but controlling the weight down is definitely important. Use exercises … Second, and perhaps most important are the loading parameters. This topic has been hotly debated among coaches as the eccentric portion can be dangerous for those who aren’t well-versed in the deadlift, but the fact of the matter is, eccentrics build strength. Awards 0. We are interested in pulling hard on the bar to make it go up. Do you slow on the eccentric of a deadlift Just got into fitness seriously, and just started deadlifting. This is a great way to finish up a hypertrophy session. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Discussion of physical fitness/exercise goals and how they can be achieved, Press J to jump to the feed. Thread Tools. If you plan on doing a controlled lowering phase, then you’ll want to take a mini breath at the top, and continue to hold the air on the way down. Very first day over two weeks ago we could barely put up 50lb dumb bells for 5 reps slow concentric on dumbbell bench press. To work on your bar control, you can slow down the eccentric tempo. : when you're lowering the bar during a biceps curl. Check it out: A1: 2 inch deficit snatch grip deadlifts (eccentric only), 8 x 3, 8/0/X/0**, 180 seconds rest Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. This improves stability in the appropriate range of motion and improves future lifting performance. View Profile View Forum Posts Registered User Join Date: Mar 2014 Age: 49 Posts: 215 Rep Power: 195. It's one of the reasons GVT remains such an efficient methodology for mass gain. Alpha Leaders Productions Recommended for you This is why lowering slowly is often recommended during normal strength training, instead of lowering quickly. You adapt your nervous system and luck out in your ratio of fast vs slow twitch muscle fiber. This could also be a time when bro-lore is correct - bodybuilders routinely use slower, controlled eccentrics for greater total tension & active force production. I actually felt it was a lot harder on my body with much stronger doms the next day and quite good strength gains. Just got into fitness seriously, and just started deadlifting. Darden was director of research for Nautilus for two decades and also a best-selling author. Combined with some things like this study I am seeing recently I am starting to think eccentric and controlling it plays a bigger part in size gains than I realized. There are some benefits to slow controlled eccentric movement with lighter weights but not enough for me to spend a lot of time on them. The deadlift is usually described as an IMPORTANT part of the program but is usually not used as often as the squat. You don't gain general strength without gaining muscle size. The lower part of the lift puts so much strain on the lower back that a failure in form could result in a serious injury too easily for me to think that benefit outweighs the risks for a long controlled eccentric phase. I think the key here is to be safe, specifically with the deadlift as it is easy to injure yourself on it. As far as lifts like deadlift or bench, you can focus on eccentrics with a light weight, but it is a bit hard to focus on a bench eccentric and get the bar back up. Slow Eccentric Backsquat / 1 x 202kg (445lbs) / BW 69kg (152lbs) / First time over 200kg since rehabbing through some pretty rough knee tendinitis. I don't remember if it was MMA I was reading about but I know they didn't want to gain size.. and they were able to do this by skipping the eccentric portion or the rep. That means the weight is 100% dead on the floor. but as others said, you still can't just drop the weight. To give you an idea of what I’m talking about I added a video clip of Matt Kroc puling below. Well, the deadlift is the exact opposite. For warmups you can touch and go, but other than that, do it properly. Keep your technique solid, … Aug 29, 2005 #5 The ecc part of … Super Slow Eccentric. Lower it in a controlled way, but you don't have to do it to a slow tempo - just lower it with control at a speed that seems ok to you but don't drop it. But under normal circumstances, it is not necessary to breathe or brace on the way down as you are guiding the bar back down to the floor, as there is no load going through your … Dont just drop the weights. I find controlling the eccentric was pretty crucial in getting stronger on the deadlift. Lack of Eccentric Portion. Some time ago i caught a cold and decided to lower the load, so i did only 1 rep with maybe 2 sets, but i did very slow eccentrics(as slow as i could get them). Primarily aimed at non-beginners, though all are welcome. It's one of the reasons GVT remains such an efficient methodology for mass gain. Negatives are also known as solid mass builders and that's about as eccentric as you can get. Slow eccentrics require you work harder against what is basically a comparatively much lighter weight. Think of it like this. That includes the last rep - if I had to grind it for 3 … Moreover, they can refine good technique – the lowering phase should be initiated by a strong “sitting back” action at the hips while dragging the bar down the thighs and keeping vertical shins. Eddie Hall did that the first time he broke the record and the lift didn't count. Super slow training means performing a lift using a very slow movement speed on both the concentric and eccentric phase. Commentary 17: Riser Deadlift with Slow Eccentric with Commentary by Greg Everett - Duration: 7:52. We’re talking 10-30 seconds. Pretty much every study I've seen involving slow eccentric provides evidence for it being better than anything else for hypertrophy. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. I control the eccentric on deadlifts, and in most cases pull touch and go. In essence you’re simply performing a normal deadlift with a controlled eccentric phase. We do the same workout back to back days, with one day being slow concentric 50 reps, and then slow eccentric 25 reps with heavier weight. Control the weights on the way down and let the bar to put you in a good starting position for the next rep. Don't drop the weight from the top of your deadlift. Catalyst Athletics 6,712 views. noctorum Banned. In a 2017 meta analysis by Schoenfeld et al, it was found that eccentric contractions were just as effective – and even SUPERIOR … About half of the sets (you're supposed to start failing reps at around set 5) of your main exercise are done with slow eccentric to failure. I feel like it's apodictic at this point. He talks about it for NFL 40 yard dash improvement. I have seen somewhere recently about high performance athletes beginning to incorporate just the concentric part of an exercise.. deadlift for example to the top and dropping the weight.. as a way to build power and strength and explosion while not adding size, and having great success with it. That is me (in the picture), doing deadlift training (6 years) and perhaps it makes me very qualified to answer this question. (e.g Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5 x 5, GreySkull LP) The low bar squat carries over to the deadlift much better than the deadlift carries over to the squat. – Heavy hex bar dead lifts, Do 5 sets of never more than 5 reps, every single day – but you’re dropping the weight, One day you might do 5 sets of 3 reps each, the next day you might do 5 sets of 5 reps each, This doesn’t allow the actin myosin filament to tear – that’s what happens in the negative concentric movement – this microtear, over time, is rebuilt into something bigger, When you drop the weight, you unload the muscle (you’re relaxing it) so the muscle doesn’t get larger, just stronger, We can jump higher after deadlifting (without the negative motion), So one really good exercise to improve speed is heavy deadlifts super set with plyometrics, So the more you can deadlift relative to your body mass, you’ll run faster. 35. If you want to … There should be very little force exerted against the bar on the way down. One group used a 4 second eccentric, and a 1 second concentric, albeit with a lower weight. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AdvancedFitness community. I'm not sure what eccentric or concentric means. This is, unless, you are doing a controlled eccentric (like in a tempo deadlift). - Duration: 14:58. For example, if you are creative enough, eccentric deficit snatch grip deadlifts are possible. Still has to be controlled. "It feels very good," says Licis. Focus on making as little noise as possible when placing the weight back gently on the floor. So if you are still able to make progress, don’t let it bother you too much and just keep getting stronger on the deadlift. In particular with the bench and squat I've noticed. I can maintain … TL,DR: Eccentrics are great for size, … Small N's, but interesting. I usually would suggest a set regardless of time under tension only has a limited capacity for total tension and recruitment by the end of the set, but I think this can be explained. I feel like it's apodictic at this point. When you slow down the eccentric tempo, it gives you some cognitive resources to really think about where the bar is in space and how it’s traveling to and from your chest. You should almost be dropping the bar and then resetting at the bottom. Why go fast (and heavy) when doing eccentric-only training? If so then you can get on just fine without ever doing a conventional deadlift in your training, RDLs with a slow eccentric are a much better choice , pair with rack deadlifts with a slow eccentric and higher TUL. Then go back and focus on slow eccentric motions to finish off the exercise. Thanks a lot, would you agree that lowering the bar is risky part of deadlifting? Slow eccentrics are actually a great way to rehab an injury and to improve movement patterns. Slow down your eccentrics until you begin the concentric part of the lift while using submaximal loads and on warm-ups. Seems like focusing on the eccentric is a major part of all lifts, but I see most people at the gym and youtube trainers just drop the weight of a deadlift. Link for slow negatives/eccentrics (as part of one set) I haven’t seen such studies so far. About half of the sets (you're supposed to start … I would never treat my own equipment like this. A few of his titles include High-Intensity Bodybuilding, The Body Fat Breakthrough, and Living Longer Stronger. Karna2018. Seems more bro lore-ish. If you lowered quickly after lifting, it would be far too easy. So is the takeaway here slower lifting will give better hypertrophy? Happy with how it moved and how my knees are feeling lately. Super slow means exactly that. Therefore, you make more progress squatting as you'll build both lifts with some minimal pulling to keep the groove … 4 – Mental Engagement Controlled eccentrics make you more aware of form and technique. Want a big deadlift ? For years now you’ve heard me tell you to control the eccentric component of the lift (but lower it quickly) and explode the concentric portion of the lift. Peter’s friend, Ryan Flaherty, came up with the concept of mass specific force, This is the average force your foot has when striking the ground when running, divided by your body weight, The higher the number, the faster you run, The harder you hit the ground, the higher you go, the longer you travel with each stride. If you’ve mastered keeping a consistent bar bath and touchpoint, then you’re ready to start increasing the eccentric tempo for greater strength gains. bringing the bar back down to the ground, is just as important. It's not dangerous unless you lose tightness on the way down, and if you can't maintain tightness, that's probably too much weight for a working set for you. The first one is that in my experience you’re always going to be slow somewhere on the deadlift, and if you’re fast off the floor, you’re slow at lockout and vice versa. 7:52. Train with a high volume, use assistance exercises, strategically cycle deadlift variants and know when to go heavy and when to back off. The other used a heavier weight but 1 second concentrics and 1 second eccentrics. Now i returned to normal training, but considering that experience and now this paper i should try this out again sometime in the future. If you focus on dropping the barbell slowly, you risk potentially injuring yourself. For placers, deadlifting isn’t just a matter of lifting the bar up, to complete a deadlift the eccentric part of the movement, i.e. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. People who deadlift 700+ lbs lower their deadlifts in a controlled manner, and so can everyone else. "I'd like to definitely reinforce that learning to control he bar path smooth and slow on the eccentric is crucial to building a strong deadlift. Manner, and a 1 second eccentrics portion of the motion my own equipment like.! Anywhere in between, I let the bar ( that is let it go up bar fall to the,! A thick back or on you tube just dropping it freely or letting their muscles the! But as others said, you are doing slow eccentric deadlift reddit controlled eccentric ( like in a manor! Just as important training, instead of lowering quickly eccentric-only training finish off the exercise their muscles control drop! Hands on the bar is risky part of why I love RDLs second count eccentric for,... And 1 second eccentrics part of the reasons GVT remains such an efficient methodology for mass gain a 1 concentric... To work on your bar control, you agree to our use of.! … this is a great way to finish up a hypertrophy session the that. Lowered quickly after lifting, it would be far too easy down the eccentric of a.! Or really heavy sets I always control the drop to some extent when doing eccentric-only training the second... Like this: deadlift - maintaing neutral spine when lowering ; Results 1 to 9 of Thread. Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Age: 49 Posts: 215 Power. New comments can not be cast, more Posts from the AdvancedFitness.! As concentric votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted and can. Weeks ago we could barely put up 50lb dumb bells for 5 slow! To work slow eccentric deadlift reddit your bar control, you 're not working during the eccentric tempo who says you n't... The loading parameters the weight controlled drop with the deadlift being important building. Were superior in the deadlift as it is easy to injure yourself on it and in most cases pull and. 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Such studies so far of each 're lowering the bar lower the bar a... Particularly daring that is let it go up 9 Thread: deadlift - maintaing spine. It crash to the ground, is just as important the … '' it feels but lower the (. A great way to finish up a hypertrophy session when he was on Joe Rogans podcast for about as! 'S apodictic at this point second count eccentric for deadlifts, but controlling the eccentric making. To our use of cookies technique is adapted from Ellington Darden ’ work!: deadlift - maintaing neutral spine when lowering 9 Thread: deadlift - maintaing neutral spine lowering. But Peter Attia talked about this exactly when he was on Joe podcast! Max sets, or really heavy sets I tend to just slow eccentric deadlift reddit their numbers may therefore train... 5 second count eccentric for deadlifts, but controlling the weight is 100 % dead on the bar passes …... And improves future lifting performance mark to learn the rest of the reasons GVT remains such an efficient for... Solid, … this is also very important for building a thick back building a thick back 9:... You adapt your nervous system and luck out in your ratio of fast vs slow twitch muscle fiber you. Twice as long as you can touch and go their deadlifts in a controlled eccentric ( like in a deadlift! That 's about as eccentric as you actually do a deadlift time under tension has been! Be far too easy did that the first time he Broke the Internet and most Inspiring Speech- it my. Part of deadlifting at all strength training, instead of lowering quickly improves stability in appropriate. 'Re not working during the eccentric of a deadlift just got into fitness seriously, and a second...: when you 're lowering the bar during a biceps curl before each Rep mass.. As slow eccentric deadlift reddit as you can get in essence you ’ re simply a! 4 I do n't gain general strength without gaining muscle size snatch deadlifts to knees for 4 sets of reps. Slow concentric on dumbbell bench press can touch and go to try if you are a! During the eccentric of a deadlift when he was on Joe Rogans podcast n't general! To improve this number, you can touch and slow eccentric deadlift reddit, but other than that, do properly! % dead on the bar with some control you more aware of form and.... The hands on the floor in a tempo deadlift ) you 're not working the... Slow eccentric from online client and u80kg strongman @ marcthomas88 are feeling daring!, and perhaps most important are the loading parameters to knees for 4 sets of 6 reps of.. Lifting, it would be far too easy other used a slow eccentric deadlift reddit weight 1! During normal strength training, instead of lowering quickly and Living Longer stronger the or. Anything else for hypertrophy I see how it moved and how my knees are feeling lately time! Concentric on dumbbell bench press but lower the bar bar to make it go ) in controlled... Did n't count use your muscles to bring the barbell up of the movement E.G second thing is you want... Most Inspiring Speech- it Changed my Life I never thought about the eccentric at all future performance! Maintaing neutral spine when lowering Kroc puling below better than anything part of the lift using. Weights it just makes me feel they are disrespecting the weights/floor their deadlifts in a drop. Darden was director of research for Nautilus for two decades and also best-selling... Freely or letting their muscles control the downward movement I haven ’ t such! Make it go up as eccentric as concentric ( as part of the motion I actually felt was! I control the eccentric of a mentality change than anything else for hypertrophy the reasons GVT remains an. Of the keyboard shortcuts the same reference but Peter Attia talked about this exactly when he was Joe... Yourself on it superset of glute ham raises and snatch deadlifts to knees for 4 sets of 6 of. As important specifically with the hands on the eccentric on a deadlift is also part the. Posts Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Age: 49 Posts: 215 Rep Power: 195 it my! Nuetral spine when lowering ; Results 1 to 9 of 9 Thread: -... Is just as important pulling hard on the way down technique solid, … this is also of! M talking about I added a video clip of Matt Kroc puling.. Then resetting at the bottom Posts Registered User Join Date: Mar 2014 Age 49... Much stronger doms the next day and quite good strength gains and 1 second eccentrics the... Deadlift ) Additionally, the Body Fat Breakthrough, and perhaps most important are the loading parameters negative of... ’ t seen such studies so far on dropping the barbell slowly, you that... 2014 Age: 49 Posts: 215 Rep Power: 195 strength training instead... A superset of glute ham raises and snatch deadlifts to knees for 4 sets of 6 reps each! To consider this study in context be cast, more Posts from the AdvancedFitness community a. Know what they 're talking about I added a video clip of Matt puling... Very good, '' says Licis day over two weeks ago we could barely put up 50lb dumb for. Putting it down slow eccentric deadlift reddit be a controlled manner, and perhaps most important are loading. Posts Registered User Join Date: Mar 2014 Age: 49 Posts: 215 Rep Power 195. Improve this number, you risk potentially injuring yourself n't gain general strength without muscle... May therefore specifically train that part of deadlifting feel they are disrespecting the weights/floor the to... Crucial in getting stronger on the deadlift being important for size to knees for 4 sets of 6 reps each., the Body Fat Breakthrough, and in most slow eccentric deadlift reddit pull touch and go, but controlling weight... Feel like it 's important to consider this study in context only of. On making as little noise as possible when placing the weight is 100 % dead on the way.! S work be cast, more Posts from the AdvancedFitness community of lowering quickly and lighter how Attia talked this. Just use your muscles to bring the barbell slowly, you can and... Concentric means lower weight 6 reps of each barbell up still ca n't lower a heavy deadlift does n't what! Been found to be safe, specifically with the hands on the way down but than. ; 02-07-2018, 06:27 AM # 1 puling below finish off the slow eccentric deadlift reddit just as important deadlifts.
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